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Old 02-02-2018, 08:04 AM   #21
Ali_Europe
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Re: Important: Iran and Russia Closer to Su-30 Deal

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Originally Posted by Sherwin View Post
I remember and that is fine by me, and I see what you are saying. Just because you have been critical of the USA or the Shah does not make you pro IR. I will share a personal story, a few years ago I discovered I am part Russian on my moms side(and German). I took the time to learn the language and understand a new culture and that helped me remove my prejudice. Just because I love Russia does not mean that I am a traitor, Communist or anti American.
well said, Sherwin jan, actually lt of people often misunderstand the difference between blind nationalism and a true patriotism... A blind Nationalist disrespect others and belive his nation or culture to be superior..such idea often ends up to faschism and racism... A true Patriot enjoy his culture and is proud of his cultre and heritage and is ready to defend his homeland against agressions but at same time he respects other cultures and nations and wants o live in peace and respect with others... a true Patriot wouldnt blindly follow orders just because there are orders from top, he would always put moral and ethic first... That's why someone like Muhammed Ali was a better Patriot by refusing to join the army and going to Vietnam, cuz he knew that war was wrong and would just cause the death of lot of Vietname and americans.... while those who called him a traitor were responsible for lot of war crimes and lot of blood on both sides... people like Bush or Nixon were real "anti americans" cuz they made lot of Young american soldiers and ot of inocent vietnames, iraqi, etc die just to make few owners of some companies richer!!!That's why I have a big respect for people like Muhammed Ali or Snowden who were ready to give up lot of big Privilegs like money or world champion titles or a good job for real values like respect, honesty, Fairness



I also have big respects for those who fight against a big force for the rights of the weak ones, for those without voices




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I served my country, for those who would like to criticize, if you feel that strongly, put your money where your mouth is and join the armed forces. There are those who just talk and there are those who do something about it. I know exactly where you are coming from and I will support you. If anyone gives you or anyone a hard time for a difference of opinion, you know me I cannot stay silent. No matter what your political or religious beliefs are, like you said, we need to think about the long run. Afghanistan, Iraq, Lybia, Syria, Yemen are visible threats, that are all near by us.
I think joining the Military services is a personal decision... But my moto was always in a Military service I would always be ready to defend the homeland against agresssions but I would always refuse any order to join a force which attack other nations... that's why if I would be a citizen of USA (I would never agree to serve outside US-border, since almost all US-Military forces outside USA are involved in some form of agression).

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When you attack someone, you are fighting a losing battle. If you lose, you go home but if they lose, they lose their country. Take a look at big USA and Russia, what happened when they went into Afghanistan? They got their rear ends handed to them, same thing when USA went to Vietnam. Also, same thing when Napoleon and Hitler decided it was a brilliant idea to attack Mother Russia on her own soil. Never underestimate the will of your enemy, if you do that, you already lost.
100% true

Last edited by Ali_Europe : 02-02-2018 at 08:11 AM.
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Old 02-02-2018, 11:21 AM   #22
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Re: Important: Iran and Russia Closer to Su-30 Deal

Politics?

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Old 02-02-2018, 12:22 PM   #23
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Re: Important: Iran and Russia Closer to Su-30 Deal

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Politics?

pouya jan.. it is not a domestic political issue, we just talk about differences between patriotism, nationalism and values.... And I don't think Muhammed Ali would be observed as a Person, who has anything to do with domestic politics of IRAN.... I just brought him as an example of someone who stand for his believes and not just follow money and fame
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Old 02-05-2018, 02:22 PM   #24
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Icon6 Re: Important: Iran and Russia Closer to Su-30 Deal

^^^

LOOL I think Pouya was just joking about it!
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Old 02-07-2018, 02:10 PM   #25
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Re: Important: Iran and Russia Closer to Su-30 Deal

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^^^

LOOL I think Pouya was just joking about it!
That is the vibe I got from Pooya82 as well Ali Europe jan, I think he was just joking. Actually, most of our conversation was around discussing military strategy, differences between USA, Russia and Iran's military. We both agree that Iran does not have the same resources as the big boys USA, Russia, even China and should focus on military defense ie SAM's, sonar, radar, air defenses, beef up the navy. We also discussed Iran's topography how we are not KSA or Kuwait we have a mountainous region, which can be to our advantage, on the ground and also to invade.

Finally, we discussed that stealth does not make your planes undetectable, it makes it so that radar ca't detect it and it is very expensive plus overrated. We also agreed that because you do not believe in a certain political ideology or support an individual, that does not make one an anti Iranian. Since people here know that I have family in both countries mentioned in the title and was a US Naval Officer, I was chiming in, sharing my thoughts and experiences.
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Old 03-18-2018, 09:49 PM   #26
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Re: Important: Iran and Russia Closer to Su-30 Deal

Ali jaan,
Been busy with work as well as a family emergency, therefore applogies for not responding. Ali jaan, my arguments are not by all means to be taken as disrespectful or an attempt to change what you belive to be the right thing, but rather an honest discrcription of what has happened and happening to iran. A quick Google search for members of Dr. Mosadegh’s cabinet and connecting the dots (my last name) you’d realize what i have talked about here comes directly from an uncle and other family members who have been in pusuit of a better Iran for years. Having said that since i am a firm believer in democracy and secular gov. I accept the fact that in a democratic society we should agree to disagree.
Let me wish you and all IK members a very happy new year and end my points by a great quote from Nelson Mandela:
Fools will multiply when those with knowledge are silent. Iran needs Iranians to build this country. We can't control east or west, but we can control our actions. We must promote education and education all the time so that we would not be fooled by those who would want to take away our resources for free.
Another great quote by Sadegh Hedayat:
If we study (5) min a day in lieu of (17) Rakat ركعت of daily prayers
We would not have as many illiterate Moslems or perhaps after studying we would not be following the so called religious leaders. Let's celebrate our Nowrooz bigger than a year ago and let's uphold our culture. Let me repeat:

Fools multiply when Wisemen are silent. Weapons in the hands of fools is not going to protect Iran. Celebrate our نوروز, embracing our culture and upholding it would certainly be Thorns in the eyes of enemies of Iran.
Happy new year

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Old 04-09-2018, 04:18 AM   #27
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Re: Important: Iran and Russia Closer to Su-30 Deal

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Ali jaan,
Been busy with work as well as a family emergency, therefore applogies for not responding. Ali jaan, my arguments are not by all means to be taken as disrespectful or an attempt to change what you belive to be the right thing, but rather an honest discrcription of what has happened and happening to iran. A quick Google search for members of Dr. Mosadegh’s cabinet and connecting the dots (my last name) you’d realize what i have talked about here comes directly from an uncle and other family members who have been in pusuit of a better Iran for years. Having said that since i am a firm believer in democracy and secular gov. I accept the fact that in a democratic society we should agree to disagree.
well, first of all let me make it clear that my critics was not at all on you as a person, but on the political strategy, second, I myself am a big admirer of Dr. Mossadegh and several members of my own family were in those days active supporter of Mossadegh..And I often said it and I can just repeat, that I was never a fan of the today religious system in IRAN.. But I want to make it clear that I always distinguish between Iran's national strategical interessts and the government... Even I dislike a government, I would support actions which are positive for Iran's long therm national and strategical interessts.. let me make it clear with an example: I think we both would agree that Reza shah was a cruel dictator and I think every real democrat would criticize his dictatorship.. but everybody would agree that building railways during his time was a correct decision..it is similar today, I would always criticize today's religious dictatorship but I would at same time always support Iran's missile program or any decision which would make Iran's defence capabilities improve...future of a nation often is formed by combination of decisions and strategies... it is important to support good choices and criticize wrong developments
I also absolutly agree that a real democracy is the best system..but history of third world countries has again and again proven that a weak democracy can't survive. since western and imperial powers often wouldn't tolerate population of third world countries to have the right to decide about their own natural resources... just remember what happen to Mossadegh in Iran in Operation Ajax..do you remember what they did to Patrice Lumumba in Congo? or in chile in 1970's as people voted for Allende, Kissinger said(exactly his own words):I don’t see why we have to let a country go Marxist just because its people are irresponsible..and we all know how CIA removed Allende and athousends of chilenians were killed... another famous quote of Kissinger: “Oil is much too important a commodity to be left in the hands of the Arabs.

if we have such people in West to design their policy, we can't just sit like nice peace loving sheeps and wait til the wolf would eat us...

My point is before having a democracy we need 4 things: an independent government, which wouldn't recieve orders from Washington or London 2. A powerfull stable defence to resist any foreign attacks or interventions 3. stable economical conditions 4. an educated population (which wouldn't be easiely manipulated by foreign powers)
Of course it is very important to have pressure on the government to force them step by step give people more rights and freedoms... but very fast and uncontrolled opening of a third world traditional society can be ending in chaos(since foreign powers often wait for any chance to create chaos and devision to achieve their goals)..the chaos after fall of soviet union or situation in countries like yugoslavia in the 90's or Syria today show the big risks

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Ali jaan,
Let me wish you and all IK members a very happy new year and end my points by a great quote from Nelson Mandela:
Fools will multiply when those with knowledge are silent. Iran needs Iranians to build this country. We can't control east or west, but we can control our actions. We must promote education and education all the time so that we would not be fooled by those who would want to take away our resources for free.
Another great quote by Sadegh Hedayat:
I absolutly agree but as I said before, we live in a region which is under big danger and foreign powers like USA or Israel have plans of turn the middle east to a region full of weak dependent nations

that's why even Russia came to support Iran in Syria, since they didn't want entire middle east under US-domination

did you ever watch the famous Wesley Clark Video?Just for the record: Clark isn't a crazy conspiracy theorician, he was the commander of NATO forces in late 90's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kd6vR1J0_6A

And it is important to remember a major reason why this american strategy slowed down, was following reasons:
a) wars in Iraq and Afghanistan cause more problems than expected
b) Iran and Russia came to game by sending troops to Syria and prevent a new US-invasion

but USA now follows a new strategy by using proxy civil wars to weaken nations from inside

some zionists and western forces even want Iran lot weaker and have such ideas of deviding Iran in several countries



Don't underestimate the enemies...just see what happen to soviet union, Yugoslavia, etc... CIA. MI6, Mossad etc spend lot of time and money to create chaos and deviding nations

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Originally Posted by bsedighi View Post
Fools multiply when Wisemen are silent. Weapons in the hands of fools is not going to protect Iran. Celebrate our نوروز, embracing our culture and upholding it would certainly be Thorns in the eyes of enemies of Iran.
Happy new year
well, let wish the day come when Dr. Mossadegh dream of a real free and democratic Iran and middle east would come true, but I am afraid that will take a while and sadly lot of blood will flow

Last edited by Ali_Europe : 04-09-2018 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 04-11-2018, 01:32 AM   #28
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Re: Important: Iran and Russia Closer to Su-30 Deal

Hey guys, you seem really smart and knowledgeable. Can you tell whats up with these pictures? When did Iran join the club?

Iran Parliament Building
https://cdn2.trend.az/media/pictures...parliament.jpg

US Capital
http://www.washingtondcschamberofsec...77704_orig.jpg

Astana, Kazakstan
http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/wp-co...-city-nteb.jpg

Israel Supreme Court
https://illuminatisymbols.info/wp-co...el-Pyramid.jpg

London Olympics
http://ugandandiasporanews.com/wp-co...day0-act11.jpg
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Old 04-11-2018, 06:05 AM   #29
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Re: Important: Iran and Russia Closer to Su-30 Deal

Ali Europe jan and bsedighi good posts both of you. While I agree that education is important a nation needs to be able to defend itself against enemies. We are surrounded, last time I checked we have three enemies in the region alone: Israel, Saudi Arabia and recently Turkey. In fact if you want to find a friend, you need to head NORTH from Tabriz until you hit Russia, where some of my family are. You brought up some great points I will put in bold

And it is important to remember a major reason why this american strategy slowed down, was following reasons:
a) wars in Iraq and Afghanistan cause more problems than expected
b) Iran and Russia came to game by sending troops to Syria and prevent a new US-invasion

but USA now follows a new strategy by using proxy civil wars to weaken nations from inside

some zionists and western forces even want Iran lot weaker and have such ideas of deviding Iran in several countries


Yes, yes and yes you are 100% correct. USA's new strategy is proxy war so they do not engage with Iran. They want Azerbaijan to go to Turkey and see Iran get broken up, like Yugoslavia when it became Serbia and Montenegro, Croatia, Albania, and Bosnia. When nations split up, that is good for the big dog. The big dog, USA, does not want Iran to be another big dog, that will be competiion, they want Iran fragmented if we can have a Kurdistan Republic, Republic of East Azerbaijan, ver my dead body my family on my dads side is from Tabriz i know they would be willing go to war over that) bwt Mom's side Rus and German but another story for another day.

Also Ali Europe jan, to educate myself, I read one book on the 1953 Coup of Mossadeq but if you have any good English books on that subject, I appreciate it. Yes education is the key and important but so building up your military defense capabilities. As mentioned before we won't be big USA, Russia or even China but we can beef up our air defense system. We could do inexpensive things rather than buying Stealth which btw does not mean it is invisible, it means it is undetectable by radar. However, that is now no longer true. Here is a good article I found how People's Republic of China have developed Radar that can detect US stealthy F22 Raptor.

We can build up our air defenses, invest in some things SAMS, surface to air missiles. In Vietnam the VC did not have an Air Force but they were able to shoot down 1 out of ever 9 US planes through SAMS. They caused a ton of damage to mighty USA nad they did not have an air force. We can also improve and update our computer systems, towers, things like that.
As for Mossadeq and education or improving Iran. Well Mossadeq is long gone, we cannot go back in time and bring him back.

The only way, Iran is to advance as a nation is one day there is no Islamic Republic, just IRAN or Republic of Iran. Just like I predicted to my dad as a kid the CCCP/ZSSR would collapse on it's own weight, the I.R will eventually fail and it will happen in our lifetime. After all you can't contain the people forever, they tried that with the DDR(east Germany) and CCCP as mentioned before and they failed miserably. Eventually the people will rise up but until then so we don't get invaded, let's focus on that military defense.

As mentioned before the Russian planes these days are not your daddy's SSR pieces of junk from the 80s or from former SSR countries like Azerbaijan. WIth Boeing and Airbus we might have delays and Airbus might not want to pull the trigger because of US pressure and politics. The Russias do not care and we can get modernized planes. The other thing we need to do as mentioned before is replace our aging fleet.

Farooq I am not much of a conspiracy theorist guy but I must say that is errie. I think it is just a coincidence though it's not like US, Israeli and Iranian officials have diplomatic relations and can discuss the designs of their Parlament.
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Old 04-11-2018, 08:21 AM   #30
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Re: Important: Iran and Russia Closer to Su-30 Deal

Trump seems to have lost his mind:

He sent following tweets today:

'Get ready Russia' - Donald Trump tells Putin and Assad to expect missile attack as he says relations now worse than during Cold War


Let's hope such tweets will be just a show and part of a psychological warefare, but it is a clear fact that the tensions between USA and Russia are growing faster and faster!
And since the middle east "as the one of most important and strategical region and source of energy" will be a piece of Cake that USA & NATO will not easiely give up, some hot times are ahead of us...

several players are involved in this dangerous game and every wrong move can ends up in a disaster

A)Iran and Russia
Iran now must really focus on being as good as possible prerpared for any potential attacks from USA or Israel in coming years(or maybe even in coming months). Sure Iran has good realtions with Russia, but can't only rely and hope on Russian support because right now, Russia has a small number of troops in Syria, maybe some 30-35 fighter jets (dozen SU-34, Su-30 and few SU-25 and Su-24) and few SAM units and lot of Russian units might need to stay in Russian mainland and Pacific to defend Russia in case of new NATO agressions(since NATO has positioned last 2 years put lot of tanks and fighter jets in countries boardering Russia ad lot of Russian analysts believe a potential conflicht with USA would need al their recourses). Also Russians are under sanctions which make them also try to always send a minimum number of troops to middle east to keep the costs small
Only case Russia might directly get involved in a direct battle with USA, would be the case that Americans directly attack Russian forces in syria and I really think and hope that Trump and the Hawks around him like Bolton wouldn't be so crazy to start WW3 by directly attacking Russian armed forces on ground...(but I think Russians will deliver IRAN and Syria with more SAM units or exchange information with them to improve their defence capabilities)the fact that Israeli are now forced to shoot their missiles over Lebanon and try to avoid Syrian sky, it is a sign that Syrian defence is improved (few weeks ago an israeli F-16 was shot down and by last israeli attack 5 of 8 Israeli missiels were intercepted by Syrian air defence units, which is not that bad by considering the extrem short distances and small reaction times and the fact that Syrian army is in battle with rebels and is operating under chaotic conditions...

America also is in very unstable situation(potential trade war with china, huge debts, growing powerty and inner tensions). As a chinese provertb says,an injured tiger is the most dangerous tiger (that's why USA also behave very agressive right now). USA needs money and will put more pressure on rich Arabs
to order more weapond. And USA will also cause as many proxy wars a s possible to destabilize countries like Iran, Iraq or Syria
I believe for the next 5-7 years USa would cause big destabilization in middle east and even in far east until the day that american public finally would end up voting idiots and USA would make a real change(but that might only hapen if big corporates and oil companies, wall street and arm industry would lose their dominance)maybe once a real change happen and mabye a real progressive or a real libertarian would be the president and be ready to end this "world poice militarism"..but that might take quite a while to happen...

Israel: Israel is a colonial construction and can't survive without american tax payer money and huge military support from USA. Israelis know it would be very bad for them if USA would one day leave middle east. So they will try every thing they can to create situations to force USA to stay in middle east and even to get involved in a war with IRAN

UK and some other NATO members like CANADA or France might follow USA (maybe only Germans would resist the american-israeli strategy cuz of their good buiness relation with Russia, Asia and IRAN)

China: Chinese are in this game by far the smartest power ... They know in long therm nothing can stop them to be the world dominant ecconomic power and They will try to wait and let others have their battles...unlike USA, their ecconomical power isn't based on militarim but by huge working force and step by step modenrization of their industry...(sure they exploit their work force, but at least they don't bomb other nations for acces to oil)..they use their ecconomical force to get the best conditions...and slowly they also improve their military year by year...they will be the silent observer but Only if the tensions between Russia and USA really would turn dirty (for example in an extrem case of a global conflict) than chinese might tend to side with Russians(cuz China prefer a ballance of power in world and they don't like to see US domination in long therm !

For IRAN this means to really focus on improving the defence eand also work on uniting all iranians(more step by step democratization would be the major key to create stronger unity among all Iranians) and IRAN must continue with cooperation with all forces which resist proxy wars and invasions...so in long therm Iran has to focus to have a stronger trade with countries in region (Iraq,Syria, Pakistan, Armenia, turkey, etc) + Russia, China, Brazil etc
It would be also great if IRAN can join the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation

Last edited by Ali_Europe : 04-11-2018 at 09:08 AM.
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