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View Full Version : Thanks Daie,to Make Us Wait Another 5 Years For World Cup!


lalash
03-30-2009, 12:23 PM
even his photo make me sick to my stomach,wish this guy was never iranian after all,he played with our national pride,over his personal fights with karimi-mobali-kazemian ..........etc,do not forget to take your rezai with you,because he never ever will be chosen for team meli again.......

shawnagha
03-30-2009, 12:47 PM
even his photo make me sick to my stomach,wish this guy was never iranian after all,he played with our national pride,over his personal fights with karimi-mobali-kazemian ..........etc,do not forget to take your rezai with you,because he never ever will be chosen for team meli again.......

it is a bit too early to make the statement that we are not going to world cup. there is still all to play for in this group!
1) north korea has 10 pts with 5 games
2) south korea has 8 pts with 4 games
3) saudi arabia has 7 pts with 5 games
4) iran has 6 pts with 5 games
5) uae... who gives a crap
there is only four pts between the number 1 spot and the number 4 spot. i think we will definately beat u.a.e because they're weak and no matter how good north korea is, we match up very well against them. the only team that would be a real challenge is south korea. there is still all to play for in this group. i supported daei as the team's coach and i really believe he took take us to the world cup, but his poor attitude, his stubbornness and unprofessionalism lead to his failure! i really hope qotbi will be the new head coach! and there is a possibility according to whatg kafashian has said:
http://www.persianfootball.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1831&Itemid=2

Wahani
03-30-2009, 12:57 PM
The statement is rather right on the money. Iran has two away matches against both Koreas. Neither match is a walk in the park. The match against UAE at the Azadi stadium is also going to tough. UAE will go for it, as they have nothing to loose. I'm sorry, but let's get real at this point. This going to be major endeavor for Iran to get out of this hole.

Sherwin
03-30-2009, 05:26 PM
it is a bit too early to make the statement that we are not going to world cup. there is still all to play for in this group!
1) north korea has 10 pts with 5 games
2) south korea has 8 pts with 4 games
3) saudi arabia has 7 pts with 5 games
4) iran has 6 pts with 5 games
5) uae... who gives a crap
there is only four pts between the number 1 spot and the number 4 spot. i think we will definately beat u.a.e because they're weak and no matter how good north korea is, we match up very well against them. the only team that would be a real challenge is south korea. there is still all to play for in this group. i supported daei as the team's coach and i really believe he took take us to the world cup, but his poor attitude, his stubbornness and unprofessionalism lead to his failure! i really hope qotbi will be the new head coach! and there is a possibility according to whatg kafashian has said:
http://www.persianfootball.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1831&Itemid=2


Strong post and by the way sometimes a new coach and fresh blood, is just what the team needs. I would not mind getting an aggressive European coach who loves to play attack football 4-4-2 or 4-3-3. There is still time to at least get a 3rd place spot. If Iran can just to that we still have a chance to qualify for the world cup because the #3 of our group plays against the #3 of the other group. Most likely Japan and Australia will be the #1 and #2 so we won't play agaisnt them. We will most likely get someone like Uzbekistan or Bahrain. The winner of that #3 vs #3 should handle New Zeland they are not very good.

More than anything we need a win in our next game to just boost overall team and fan morale. Right now everyone is feeling down inculding me but a win can change all of that. Don't forget the teams on top can lose to say UAE or even tie. Those things happen all the time the teams on teh top underestimate the teams from the bottom.

Also teams might leave Iran for dead thinking they are no longer a threat, and that is when you sneak up and get them.

footballdxb
03-31-2009, 01:12 AM
even his photo make me sick to my stomach,wish this guy was never iranian after all,he played with our national pride,over his personal fights with karimi-mobali-kazemian ..........etc,do not forget to take your rezai with you,because he never ever will be chosen for team meli again.......

Be sure that if IFF keeps on organizing our national team goals on short term basis, in 5 year time we will be struggling to pass the preliminary stages of the qualifications against teams like Syria, Oman, Kuwait, etc...

Ali Daei could have done better but honestly with no support and long term plans for building up a solid team for qualification matches, your comments are by far too harsh and ufair.

Please also note that all coaches around the world have some players in their squad who become their favorits because of different reasons known by the team but not to supporters who simply see the player during his official matches. In general, players who act exactly according to their coach's instructions on and off the pitch (self disciplined, motivating the squad in training sessions or before the match, available and welcoming players, fitness conscious players, hard working players, etc...) become very dear to coach's eyes. Lets not forget that at the end of the day, no coach would take consciously wrong decisions against his team and subsequently his own success!

drsoccer
03-31-2009, 02:31 AM
As a head coach, he made a few mistakes:
1) He let his personal relationship with some key players get into his decision making for player selections
2) He became rich and arrogant and had a poor PR. He was always hostile toward the reporters and simply not likable.
3) He did not learn coaching thru experience by working for some great coaches like Mr. Ghoatbi did
4) I am a coach myself and I was never impressed with his strategies. Case and example:
When Iran was 1-0 ahead of KSA, he should have kept Rezaee to keep bothering the Saudi defenders. A fast player always makes the other coach nervous. He should have kept Khalatbari because he was becoming more effective in the 2nd half. He should have reinforced the mid-field by subbing Kazemi with Ma danchi who can practically play anywhere in the field. He is a fighter and hard worker player. When we were 1-1, he started telling all players to cross the ball to Hashemian who was all alone on top of the circle outside the box with three young and fast defenders. What was he thinking - He is going to score with a header from there???

5) He stayed on bench for the whole game and only got up when Shojaee scored. When the game was tied, he did not add any value to the team by making some substitutions - He did nothing!!!

6) When the team was behind 2-1, as a head coach, he did nothing. Poor Iranian players kept crossing the ball to Hashemian 20 yards away from KSA's goal!!! He had not prepared the players to deal with the situation when they fall behind. He let the team waste time in last 7 minutes as if Iran was winning the match.

In summary, Mr. Daei was not ready to be the Head Coach. Mr. Ghoatbi is probably the best Iranian Coach if all the gang members at the top stay the f**ck out of his way. Give the man the job and let him run it the way he wants it.

Mr. Daei, You had your chances and blew it my friend. Now, go back to your family and take em for a ride in your S600 Mercedes and enjoy life - Thank God you 're done as a head coach.

shawnagha
03-31-2009, 03:06 AM
Please also note that all coaches around the world have some players in their squad who become their favorits because of different reasons known by the team but not to supporters who simply see the player during his official matches.
what exactly do you mean?
a coach picks the best players and puts them at the best positions to be effective. period!

Fahd
03-31-2009, 04:42 AM
what exactly do you mean?
a coach picks the best players and puts them at the best positions to be effective. period!


Guss Hiddink picks a strategy and then selects the best players for that strategy. He never picks the 11 best players and then comes up with a strategy. Thats how a good coach operates.

footballdxb
03-31-2009, 06:06 AM
what exactly do you mean?
a coach picks the best players and puts them at the best positions to be effective. period!
Well, your quote may be right but I guess when you talk about Best Players in here you only talk about best technical and/or fittest players, right? For most coaches these two elements form only the essential criterias for passing their first level of selections. After all, when a coach in National level is thinking of a player in his squad, he most probably has under his eyes a big number of skilled and somehow confirmed players in club level to chose from.

In case of TM, most of the national squad will be chosen from players in our professional league. This is due to restricted number of legionaires we have in other competitive professional leagues (higher level of football than our own league). When talking about the importance of a professional league with high standards, we are not only talking about money of course but the natural pressure the importance of such leagues put on the shoulders of clubs, coaches and players participating in such leagues. A high standard in our professional league will produce coaches, players and systems which are more competitive and ready to handle big events. Unfortunately, despite the number of talents in our football, there are very little number of talented players who can handle situations in important events in a professional way.

For coming back to the selection of players, TM coach will need to consider other elements in his choice of players for reaching his goals. Elements such as:

1. Player's discipline (essential in a team but unfortunately not the forte for most Iranian players)
2. Player's attitude (Team>Coach>Player)
3. Player's motivation/commitment (very important that the player is fully at the services of the national side without "BUT"s and EXCUSES)
4. Player's impact (in the team in mental and motivation levels)
5. Player's experience (to be used partially in crucial moments)
6. Player's efficiency (lto be used in certain phase of the game)
7. Player's compatibility (which means understanding of coach's tactics/strategies and his capability in executing them)

are other important elements which make for example an extremely talented player but uncapable of holding his position on the field, OR playing his own game regardless the game plan imposed by the HC, to become unselectable in the eyes of the HC...

Yasser Al Qahtani got a ban for an extra match by KSA's HC due to his undisciplinary behavior. Regardless of his important role in the squad, he was going against HC's principals which at the end of the day only aim to make KSA side a stronger side.

In Iran, we in general do not care about the responsibilities of the Coaches when given a task. We only criticise therir choices and create an atmosphere which becomes impossible for anybody to work RESPONSIBLY.
I always found it quite amusing to see how we consider ourselves much better informed about what is going on inside our team, enabling us to criticised blindly every single movement of somebody like Ali Daei for example who is directly involved with all aspects of our team and who has played and seen the top level of football and its problems closely (not only on the screen of his TV or as a supported in the stadium). Today, Ali Daei is gone and most probably claims that our team is still on the run with high hopes for the next WC qualification. He certainly does consider his work as unachieved AND not at all as failed!

This is how our football will always be a big question to all its supporters. Where we are and where we are heading to? In some time, we will see another HC being sacked because of disappointing performance judged by fans and the fruit of some steady work to disapear in a matter of a night.

Mokhlesam,

ftbldxb

Fahd
03-31-2009, 07:10 AM
of disappointing performance judged by fans


Thats not the case. He has won only 1 game in 5 matches and it was at home by a slender margin! Group B is actually easier than Group A aswell. There would be no way a Daei led TM would get even a draw result against Australia and Japan the way we have been playing. His results were unsatisfactory period and its clear the harmony in the TM camp isnt good. Our most experienced players have been missing and left inadequately explained. This lack of clarity is because there is definately something very wrong in the morale of the camp. This is because (and im speculating) the players or at least some players have no respect for Daei. You earn respect it isnt given to you with your job.

footballdxb
03-31-2009, 08:43 AM
Thats not the case. He has won only 1 game in 5 matches and it was at home by a slender margin! Group B is actually easier than Group A aswell. There would be no way a Daei led TM would get even a draw result against Australia and Japan the way we have been playing. His results were unsatisfactory period and its clear the harmony in the TM camp isnt good. Our most experienced players have been missing and left inadequately explained. This lack of clarity is because there is definately something very wrong in the morale of the camp. This is because (and im speculating) the players or at least some players have no respect for Daei. You earn respect it isnt given to you with your job.
Well if what you say is true (even on speculation), I feel very sorry for Daei who had no choice but to take the risk of selecting players who did not respect him in such crucial match. I always thought Mr. Ali Daei was a little childish to blame always others for his failures (especially players) but if it really happened on the pitch as an act of protest against the HC, I have no words to say about such irresponsible acts from our players. I do not care about Ali Daei but it is definitely insulting us as well.

In regard to earning respect, I have also to add that each player on the pitch (playing/bench) knows how his HC values him for granting him such chance. This is at least what I feel when I am selected to play for my team. In that regard, I do my best not to disappoint my coach...

In general, I have to say that values in our football have gone very low and anything said or speculated going against the normal principals of sportsmanship could be true.

ftbldxb

Fahd
03-31-2009, 09:48 AM
Well if what you say is true (even on speculation), I feel very sorry for Daei who had no choice but to take the risk of selecting players who did not respect him in such crucial match. I always thought Mr. Ali Daei was a little childish to blame always others for his failures (especially players) but if it really happened on the pitch as an act of protest against the HC, I have no words to say about such irresponsible acts from our players. I do not care about Ali Daei but it is definitely insulting us as well.

In regard to earning respect, I have also to add that each player on the pitch (playing/bench) knows how his HC values him for granting him such chance. This is at least what I feel when I am selected to play for my team. In that regard, I do my best not to disappoint my coach...

In general, I have to say that values in our football have gone very low and anything said or speculated going against the normal principals of sportsmanship could be true.

ftbldxb


If your boss hires someone who has little experience and who has a history of disharmony with your work colleagues do you think the performance and work morale in the office would be 100%? Of course not. Hiring one your team mates who you recently were on peer level with and is now your boss is not exactly showing respect for the coaching position. No other serious footballing country has employed a player who played in the most recent WC to be the head coach in the next. Its unheard of and with very good reason.

footballdxb
03-31-2009, 10:40 AM
If your boss hires someone who has little experience and who has a history of disharmony with your work colleagues do you think the performance and work morale in the office would be 100%? Of course not. Hiring one your team mates who you recently were on peer level with and is now your boss is not exactly showing respect for the coaching position. No other serious footballing country has employed a player who played in the most recent WC to be the head coach in the next. Its unheard of and with very good reason.
Fahd jaan, lets agree on one point here and lets not mix up subjects: I am not defending IFF decision to hire Ali Daei in here! I am just saying that Ali Daei selected his players and those who were selected must have had the decency to respond back to his favorable selection by honoring him. That is all. The "older" players should have appreciated their selection as Ali Daei showed he wanted new players to find their way into TM and younger players must have appreciated the trust he finally granted them.

I agree with you that realistically, our players and Iranians are quite emotinal in general and the fact that an ex-team mate with some controversial past becoming our HC, must have been quite difficult for some to accept. However, once it happened (selection of Daei as the HC), can this excuse become a valid reason for losing important matches on the pitch? I do not want to believe so.

It is not easy to build up a solid team with limited facilities in hands within a short period of time. Even greatest coaches find difficulty in doing a decent work when especially time is of essence. IMO sometimes it is much easier to accept that even though Iranians have probably talent, it is not enough for them to be a nation a part from the rest of the world ... even in football.

If we look at our games, it is amazing to see how easy it is for other teams to score against our team... It definitely shows how poor our preparation is and how our football stands only on some sparkles of talent having a minimum of effect in our results. I think you mentioned it very well in another thread comparing the Australian and Iranian football. Progressing on long term is where we completely failed to plan. Ali Daei or any other name are only clowns who serve as excuses for IFF on short term basis for covering their own shortcomings. All the personal matters between coaches, players, media, fans and others have always helped IFF to justify their decisions... :ipuke:

Fahd
03-31-2009, 11:01 AM
Fahd jaan, lets agree on one point here and lets not mix up subjects: I am not defending IFF decision to hire Ali Daei in here! I am just saying that Ali Daei selected his players and those who were selected must have had the decency to respond back to his favorable selection by honoring him. That is all. The "older" players should have appreciated their selection as Ali Daei showed he wanted new players to find their way into TM and younger players must have appreciated the trust he finally granted them.

I agree with you that realistically, our players and Iranians are quite emotinal in general and the fact that an ex-team mate with some controversial past becoming our HC, must have been quite difficult for some to accept. However, once it happened (selection of Daei as the HC), can this excuse become a valid reason for losing important matches on the pitch? I do not want to believe so.

It is not easy to build up a solid team with limited facilities in hands within a short period of time. Even greatest coaches find difficulty in doing a decent work when especially time is of essence. IMO sometimes it is much easier to accept that even though Iranians have probably talent, it is not enough for them to be a nation a part from the rest of the world ... even in football.

If we look at our games, it is amazing to see how easy it is for other teams to score against our team... It definitely shows how poor our preparation is and how our football stands only on some sparkles of talent having a minimum of effect in our results. I think you mentioned it very well in another thread comparing the Australian and Iranian football. Progressing on long term is where we completely failed to plan. Ali Daei or any other name are only clowns who serve as excuses for IFF on short term basis for covering their own shortcomings. All the personal matters between coaches, players, media, fans and others have always helped IFF to justify their decisions... :ipuke:

If your army is demoralised because of poor generals it has nothing to do with the love a soldier holds for his country. If he doesnt have the training, has guys above him who he knows is gonna get him killed through incompetence the soldier cant fight properly. Its true of everything.

Sherwin
03-31-2009, 03:48 PM
As a head coach, he made a few mistakes:
1) He let his personal relationship with some key players get into his decision making for player selections 2) He became rich and arrogant and had a poor PR. He was always hostile toward the reporters and simply not likable.
3) He did not learn coaching thru experience by working for some great coaches like Mr. Ghoatbi did
4) I am a coach myself and I was never impressed with his strategies. Case and example:
When Iran was 1-0 ahead of KSA, he should have kept Rezaee to keep bothering the Saudi defenders. A fast player always makes the other coach nervous. He should have kept Khalatbari because he was becoming more effective in the 2nd half. He should have reinforced the mid-field by subbing Kazemi with Ma danchi who can practically play anywhere in the field. He is a fighter and hard worker player. When we were 1-1, he started telling all players to cross the ball to Hashemian who was all alone on top of the circle outside the box with three young and fast defenders. What was he thinking - He is going to score with a header from there???

5) He stayed on bench for the whole game and only got up when Shojaee scored. When the game was tied, he did not add any value to the team by making some substitutions - He did nothing!!!

6) When the team was behind 2-1, as a head coach, he did nothing. Poor Iranian players kept crossing the ball to Hashemian 20 yards away from KSA's goal!!! He had not prepared the players to deal with the situation when they fall behind. He let the team waste time in last 7 minutes as if Iran was winning the match.

In summary, Mr. Daei was not ready to be the Head Coach. Mr. Ghoatbi is probably the best Iranian Coach if all the gang members at the top stay the f**ck out of his way. Give the man the job and let him run it the way he wants it.

Mr. Daei, You had your chances and blew it my friend. Now, go back to your family and take em for a ride in your S600 Mercedes and enjoy life - Thank God you 're done as a head coach.


I can live with mistakes because everyone even Gus Hiddink makes mistakes from time to time. What I can't live with is when you let your personal relationships get involved in the selection process that is jacked up.

I was never a coach but I expereienced this at the high school American football level. People who shouldn't of even been on the field were starters for one of the best varsity football team in the country. The kids would get away with this because either the rich dad would donate money to our football program, or the mom would like serve on the committee and get us snacks after practice. That $hit pissed me off so much because although we were a great team we could of been even better.

You are a soccer/futbol coach so you obviously know way more about tactics than I do, so I'll take your word on it buddy. I just wanted to give you my experience because I personally witnessed this as well. I had to sit one year on the bench before I got to become a starter at Mission Viejo because of politics.

shawnagha
03-31-2009, 04:16 PM
Guss Hiddink picks a strategy and then selects the best players for that strategy. He never picks the 11 best players and then comes up with a strategy. Thats how a good coach operates.

i see what you mean, and you're absolutely right, unless there really is not any player that can achieve a certain goal in your strategy, then you have to change the strategy because then your strategy will be like a chair with a broken leg.

footballdxb
04-01-2009, 12:28 AM
If your army is demoralised because of poor generals it has nothing to do with the love a soldier holds for his country. If he doesnt have the training, has guys above him who he knows is gonna get him killed through incompetence the soldier cant fight properly. Its true of everything.
I really like the usage of images for understanding better what we try to say but lets not forget that at the end of the day we are talking about football. There was no such dramatic situation (war situation, soldiers, etc...) in our team and at the time we faced our real problems in the match vs. KSA. For most of the game, we had a team which looked ok (much better than its previous games at least!) and suddenly we witnessed the same team, which was holding against KSA (even a much weaker side in the opinion of many) losing it completely after scoring a goal. What we want to know are the reasons for which we failed so badly at home. Ali Daei is definitely a part of the problem but that is not all.

A part from major long term plannings which have been missing in our football, I just would like to know WHAT EXACTLY HAPPENED IN THE HEAD OF OUR PLAYERS AFTER THEY SCORED THE GOAL? WHY THEY STARTED PLAYING A NEGATIVE FOOTBALL (grass rolling, requesting for medical assistance, passing the ball backwards only,etc...) WHICH THEY DO NOT MASTER AT ALL AND LEFT THE GROUND WIDE OPEN TO KSA PLAYERS TO ADVANCE AND SCORE GOALS?

footballdxb
04-01-2009, 12:32 AM
If your army is demoralised because of poor generals it has nothing to do with the love a soldier holds for his country. If he doesnt have the training, has guys above him who he knows is gonna get him killed through incompetence the soldier cant fight properly. Its true of everything.
I really like the usage of images for understanding better what we try to say but lets not forget that at the end of the day we are talking about football. There was no such dramatic situation (war situation, soldiers, etc...) in our team at the time we faced our real problems especially in the match vs. KSA. For most of the game, we had a team which looked ok (much better than its previous games at least!) and suddenly, after scoring our goal, we witnessed the same team, which was holding against KSA (even a much weaker side in the opinion of many) decently, losing it completely. What we want to know are the reasons for which we failed so badly at home. Ali Daei is definitely a part of the problem but that is not all (I really wish it was the only reason so after sacking him we could be sure we will win our next 3 matches and qualify for the WC).

A part from failing to plan our progress based on long term plannings which have been missing in our football for years now, I just would like to know WHAT EXACTLY HAPPENED IN THE HEAD OF OUR PLAYERS AFTER THEY SCORED THE GOAL? WHY THEY STARTED PLAYING A NEGATIVE FOOTBALL (grass rolling, requesting for medical assistance, passing the ball backwards only,etc...) WHICH THEY DO NOT MASTER AT ALL AND LEFT THE GROUND WIDE OPEN TO KSA PLAYERS TO ADVANCE AND SCORE GOALS?