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fakhfour
02-22-2006, 01:40 PM
Dear all
There are many threads on Ik forum about this game, but Iím tired to see always the same comments. Letís have a deep analysis of the match.
Here are my two cents:

1. The Iranian game plan was poor. There were too many personal mistakes (call them technical) and some very old problems still exist (Iíll come back to this pont).
2. The substitutions were in general good. This was not the case in our last games, but this time, IMHO, Branco brought something new to his team with his changes. Madanchi and Kazemina were very good, Akbarpour was active but needs more time and self-confidence.
3. Among the new players, Jabbari was the one we can not ignore. He had many mistakes, but also many good passes. His positioning was very good. He assisted 2 goals.
4. Alavi was not good, at least under the average of this game.
5. Our defense didnít have a chance to show something interesting.
6. There is a very important point I noticed: Even against Taipei, with 10 chances, we didnít have any plan on CORNERS! We didnít turn any of them to a chance.
7. Daei was slow and didnít touch the ball often. But he was efficient 3 times (I counted 11 ball-touches by him). He had one nice header, one assist and one goal. 3/11, is that good or poor?
8. Khatibi didnít show what he can. It was not his day.

Kaiser Amir
02-22-2006, 03:47 PM
fakhour Jan,

In my opinion, you CAN NOT draw any conclusions from a match versus Chinese Taipe.

Winning against a team that packs its own half with 11 players and is just there to let as few goals as possible is basically WORTHLESS.

- Our defence was NOT tested today.

- Our goalkeeper could have signed a few autographs while our players were busy in the other half of the pitch.

- Zare was actually able to dribble past few players after a few years in Team Melli. I think he'll sleep a happy man tonight.


It really amuses me to see people ANALYZING Iran Vs Chinese Taipe.
This was not a football match.
It was a SHOOTING PRACTICE for us.

The best conclusion you can draw is that Javad Nekounam has really lost his shooting touch.

Personally, I took today off from work to go and have FUN.
For me, watching Iran Vs Chinese Taipe was PURE FUN.
I missed Team Melli.
This was their first official game of 2006.

I was glad to see new faces like Teymurian, Jabbari, Madanchi, Akbarpour, or Khatibi in the team.
This was really refereshing.

Since you opened this topic and asked us to ANALYZE the game, I'm going to add few of my observations, even though, as I already said, such a game is not worth analyzing.


POSITIVE ASPECTS:

- Jabbari and Teymurian showed that they can be good solutions in midfield.

- Branko's goob substitutions = Madanchi scoring twice and assisting another goal!
It amazing how many times Ivankovic has made great substitutions that have actually changed our game for the better!


NEGATIVE ASPECTS:

- Bad crosses! Its amazing how 70% of our crosses didn't even got past the first opposing defender! And keep in mind, the Chinese Taipe players were VERY SHORT.

- The never-ending problem with our game speed!
We play VERY SLOW.
This problem has been there since 1996 when I started to follow Team Melli carefully.
Sometimes I have the impression that even I play FASTER FOOTBALL with my friends than some of Team Melli players who have do to these following steps each and every time they get the ball:

1- Stop it
2- Turn with it.
3- Move with it for a LOOOOOOOONG time.
4- Lose it or give a pass-back to team-mate.


And a final note about ALI DAEI:

He scored one.
He assisted one.
He hit the post once.
He gave another world-class pass to Khatibi, just a few seconds after Iran went 2-0 up, Khatibi though missed a 100% scoring chance.

So, these are the highlights of the game for a 37 year old player.

Can someone kindly tell me what were the highlights of the game for ALI DAEI's attacking partner, Hussein Khatibi?
Regards
Amir

Sherwin
02-22-2006, 03:53 PM
fakhour Jan,

In my opinion, you CAN NOT draw any conclusions from a match versus Chinese Taipe.

Winning against a team that packs its own half with 11 players and is just there to let as few goals as possible is basically WORTHLESS.

- Our defence was NOT tested today.

- Our goalkeeper could have signed a few autographs while our players were busy in the other half of the pitch.

- Zare was actually able to dribble past few players after a few years in Team Melli. I think he'll sleep a happy man tonight.


It really amuses me to see people ANALYZING Iran Vs Chinese Taipe.
This was not a football match.
It was a SHOOTING PRACTICE for us.

The best conclusion you can draw is that Javad Nekounam has really lost his shooting touch.

Personally, I took today off from work to go and have FUN.
For me, watching Iran Vs Chinese Taipe was PURE FUN.
I missed Team Melli.
This was their first official game of 2006.

I was glad to see new faces like Teymurian, Jabbari, Madanchi, Akbarpour, or Khatibi in the team.
This was really refereshing.

Since you opened this topic and asked us to ANALYZE the game, I'm going to add few of my observations, even though, as I already said, such a game is not worth analyzing.


POSITIVE ASPECTS:

- Jabbari and Teymurian showed that they can be good solutions in midfield.

- Branko's goob substitutions = Madanchi scoring twice and assisting another goal!
It amazing how many times Ivankovic has made great substitutions that have actually changed our game for the better!


NEGATIVE ASPECTS:

- Bad crosses! Its amazing how 70% of our crosses didn't even got past the first opposing defender! And keep in mind, the Chinese Taipe players were VERY SHORT.

- The never-ending problem with our game speed!
We play VERY SLOW.
This problem has been there since 1996 when I started to follow Team Melli carefully.
Sometimes I have the impression that even I play FASTER FOOTBALL with my friends than some of Team Melli players who have do to these following steps each and every time they get the ball:

1- Stop it
2- Turn with it.
3- Move with it for a LOOOOOOOONG time.
4- Lose it or give a pass-back to team-mate.


And a final note about ALI DAEI:

He scored one.
He assisted one.
He hit the post once.
He gave another world-class pass to Khatibi, just a few seconds after Iran went 2-0 up, Khatibi though missed a 100% scoring chance.

So, these are the highlights of the game for a 37 year old player.

Can someone kindly tell me what were the highlights of the game for ALI DAEI's attacking partner, Hussein Khatibi?
Regards
Amir

Great post Kaiser Amir jaan especially about Zare. I don't know why we give this guy immunity because we have more deserving players who can contribute mroe to the team. I agree with you on the fact that playing aginst tese kid of teams DOES NOTHING FOR OUR FOOTBALL. Honestly we don't improve from playing these poor teams. We need to play agianst more quality teams. This team is not evne a quality team in Asia let alone the world.

Anyways mate good post.

Kaiser Amir
02-22-2006, 04:47 PM
especially about Zare. I don't know why we give this guy immunity because we have more deserving players who can contribute mroe to the team.


SherwinRazmy Jan,

I have ALWAYS said that I will not critisize the team selection of a coach.

I will critisize the coach if he DOES NOT get the results, but the team selection is HIS business, not mine.

Its simple really:

If you can get results with Zare and Ostad Asadi in defence, then thats fine by me.
But if you WON'T, then I will critizie you, the coach, directly, not the players.

Why?

Because they were picked by YOU and didn't come to national team on their own.

Back to Zare...I will only say this:

I don't like this player, but I want Ivankovic to die by his own sword.

And...Madanchi showed a GREAT DISPLAY today!
Maybe he can replace Zare slowly. Who knows?

By the way, its AMAZING how some people BASHED Ivankovic for calling up Madanchi....



I agree with you on the fact that playing aginst tese kid of teams DOES NOTHING FOR OUR FOOTBALL. Honestly we don't improve from playing these poor teams. We need to play agianst more quality teams.


Well, you see Sherwin Jan, this game was NOT played so our team can IMPROVE.

It was an official Asian Cup qualifier.
We HAD to play it to make up the numbers.

I'm looking forward to the match versus Costa Rica next week!

Sina
02-22-2006, 04:57 PM
With thanks to Fakhfour for starting this discussions here is what I think about the match after watching the full game.

Although this was Chinese Taipei and not a strong team that could really test our lineup, I must say that we did not approach this game the right way. If you bear with me I will explain....

Offensively...

Our players were disorganized and at many times they were not at their positions. For example Nosrati was at one point closer to Taiwan's goal comparing to our forwards. This was not a corner situation but just a routine play.

Our game play plan for the first half consisted of moving the ball forward in the midfield. Passing it to the wings and have them send crosses so that Ali Daei or any other player could head the ball in or convert the opportunity given. Jabbari and Kaebi did well under this plan while Sattare Zare who was our left wing did nothing and his crosses were terrible.

We did very little ground work during the first half. Other than Kaebi who in my opinion was the best player with his foot work and amazing playmaking skills the focus was mostly on sending crosses. Considering Taiwan's short players, Ali Daei could have been more effective in the first half.

We proved that when we work with the ball on the ground we are way more effective. Madanchi, Kazemian, Kaebi, Jabbari, and even Daei did threaten to score goals once they started passing the ball on the ground rather resorting to long passes and crosses.

We had and have no plans for corners. The Taiwanese team had a much more effective use for their corners comparing to what we did on their half. We simply tried to force the issue.

Nekounam, Khatibi, and Akbarpour were also awful. Nekounam had a hard time sending effective passes in the first half and his passes were mostly behind our players. Khatibi and Akbarpour showed that they are not opportunistic players and they repeatedly wasted golden chances.


Defensively...

Our players committed alot of fouls out of desperation due to their slow speed and lack of discipline of remaining at their positions or their slow speed when running back to our own half. The notable fouling machines were Nosrati and Nekounam.

Just like the South Korea game, our defense was caught offguard several times. At one point their player got posession of the ball behind our defenders, while they were running back.

Nosrati also passed the ball to a Taiwanese player in our own half. Later in the game he was also dribbled by one of their players near our own goal. He is certainly incosistent and the only thing that was working for him today was his aggressive presence.

Coaching...

Branko gave Kazemian, Madanchi, Akbarpour, Alavi, Jabbari, Teymourian, and Taleblou the chance to make their case and showcase their talents. This was a positive move and it did help us a great deal in the second half. Ivankovich however did not consider giving the same opportunity to Borhani, Rajabzadeh, Amirabadi, and Sadeghi.

There was no reason for Daei to be in this game. When playing such easy opponents I would have expected the youngster Borhani to have an edge over Daei.

The presence of Daei does alter the approach towards this game, where you will see more crosses rather ground work.

We showed no plans executing corners and the Taiwanese side with all the fairness was more dangerous on their corners comparing to what we did. The lack of discipline exhibited during this match was certainly to be blamed on Branko. Our boys were just running loose with no effective strategy.

We exhibited the same weaknesses on the left wing and it was embarrassing to see that we were ineffective from that side against a Chinese Taipei team.

The poor play of Zare and couple of others did put Branko's selection of the 27 men squad into question. There were certainly more deserving players who could have made this list.

Kaiser Amir
02-22-2006, 06:19 PM
Sina Jan,

You observation about the poor use of set-pieces is right on.

However, this is one area I'm not at all worried about.

In the past decade, Iran has probably managed to score the highest number of goals from set-pieces under Ivankovic.

- The goal versus Oman in the last minute in the 2004 Asian Cup
- The first goal versus North Korea in a World Cup qualifier away
- The match-winning goal versus North Korea in another WCQ at home
- The match-winning goal versus Bahrain in Azadi
- The first goal by Hashemian against Japan in a WCQ in Azadi

These are just a few important goals that come to my mind right now and they ALL came from dead ball situations.
We also managed a few goals from corner-kicks in the 2004 West Asian Games.

So, today we might have wasted our set-pieces, but overally this is not a problem for Team Melli.




Our players were disorganized and at many times they were not at their positions. For example Nosrati was at one point closer to Taiwan's goal comparing to our forwards. This was not a corner situation but just a routine play.


Sorry Sina Jan,

But the example you are providing above DOES NOT demonstrate that our team lacks organization.

It proves that football is a DYNAMIC GAME.
The best teams in the world are those who attack with 11 men and defend with the same number of players.

Just look at the Chelsea Vs Barcelona game which finished a few minutes ago. The game-winning goal was scored by Eto'o who converted a CROSS, sent from just outside Chelsea's penalty box by Rafa Marquez.

Rafa Marquez is a CENTRAL DEFENDER, just like Nosrati.
However, when Barcelona started a counter-attack he left his post, ran all the way down to the other side of the pitch and assisted the match-winning goal.

Thats modern football!



Khatibi and Akbarpour showed that they are not opportunistic players and they repeatedly wasted golden chances.


OK!

So, Khatibi and Akbarpour showed what you say above.

Reza Enayati showed in the West Asian Games that he CAN NOT score even versus U-17 sides.

Hmmm...I wonder why the big bad Branko INSISTS on playing the 37 year old ALI DAEI...




Coaching...

Ivankovich however did not consider giving the same opportunity to Borhani, Rajabzadeh, Amirabadi, and Sadeghi.


Out of these players you named I also would have liked to see Borhani and Rajabzadeh given a chance.

Playing Amirabadi and Sadeghi would have been USELESS though.
The Chinese Taipe NEVER tested our defence, so if even if we had seen these two boys on the pitch, we couldn't have made a CLEAR IMPRESSION about their potencial.

I hope however to see both Amirabadi and Borhani involved in the Costa Rica game next week.

Amir
02-22-2006, 06:22 PM
fakhour Jan,

In my opinion, you CAN NOT draw any conclusions from a match versus Chinese Taipe.

Winning against a team that packs its own half with 11 players and is just there to let as few goals as possible is basically WORTHLESS.

- Our defence was NOT tested today.

- Our goalkeeper could have signed a few autographs while our players were busy in the other half of the pitch.

- Zare was actually able to dribble past few players after a few years in Team Melli. I think he'll sleep a happy man tonight.


It really amuses me to see people ANALYZING Iran Vs Chinese Taipe.
This was not a football match.
It was a SHOOTING PRACTICE for us.

The best conclusion you can draw is that Javad Nekounam has really lost his shooting touch.

Personally, I took today off from work to go and have FUN.
For me, watching Iran Vs Chinese Taipe was PURE FUN.
I missed Team Melli.
This was their first official game of 2006.

I was glad to see new faces like Teymurian, Jabbari, Madanchi, Akbarpour, or Khatibi in the team.
This was really refereshing.

Since you opened this topic and asked us to ANALYZE the game, I'm going to add few of my observations, even though, as I already said, such a game is not worth analyzing.


POSITIVE ASPECTS:

- Jabbari and Teymurian showed that they can be good solutions in midfield.

- Branko's goob substitutions = Madanchi scoring twice and assisting another goal!
It amazing how many times Ivankovic has made great substitutions that have actually changed our game for the better!


NEGATIVE ASPECTS:

- Bad crosses! Its amazing how 70% of our crosses didn't even got past the first opposing defender! And keep in mind, the Chinese Taipe players were VERY SHORT.

- The never-ending problem with our game speed!
We play VERY SLOW.
This problem has been there since 1996 when I started to follow Team Melli carefully.
Sometimes I have the impression that even I play FASTER FOOTBALL with my friends than some of Team Melli players who have do to these following steps each and every time they get the ball:

1- Stop it
2- Turn with it.
3- Move with it for a LOOOOOOOONG time.
4- Lose it or give a pass-back to team-mate.


And a final note about ALI DAEI:

He scored one.
He assisted one.
He hit the post once.
He gave another world-class pass to Khatibi, just a few seconds after Iran went 2-0 up, Khatibi though missed a 100% scoring chance.

So, these are the highlights of the game for a 37 year old player.

Can someone kindly tell me what were the highlights of the game for ALI DAEI's attacking partner, Hussein Khatibi?
Regards
Amir

i wouldnt want to comment much on this game. the above quoted post says it all. however there is just one part which i dont agree with. can u guess which one :D yep its the last part

Ali Daei had very bad headers and he was also there for 90 min which he shouldnt have been. more goals should have been scored by our 2 forwards. we need faster and younger forwards not khatibi and daei, that was the worst part. maybe give them a chance in the last 15 min but these players already have experience with TM so why not give more chance to younger and inexperienced players against Chinese Taipei. akbarpour got his chance but still it was unnecessary to put the 2 experienced forwards up front when there is younger players in need of experience, and this game was their chance.

Kaiser Amir
02-22-2006, 06:45 PM
Ali Daei had very bad headers and he was also there for 90 min which he shouldnt have been.


Amir Jan,

Lets not transform this into a DAEI thread.
These are my FINAL remarks about him since I don't want to change the subject of this post:

You say ALI DAEI had very bad headers, I say you are unfair.

One of his headers crashed against the post in the first half and another one was amazingly saved by the goalie in the 2nd period.
Actually, this second header had so much power on it that a friend of mine thought ALI DAEI had vollyed the ball with his foot!

Also, you critisize ALI DAEI for his headers, but you don't talk about the SERVICE provided to him.

A good header NEEDS a good cross.
Our crosses were AWFUL today! Most of them didn't even got past the first defender.

So, I'm not saying ALI DAEI was excellent today.
I don't even care if he plays for Team Melli or not as long as we are getting the RESULTS, but I say be fair.



we need faster and younger forwards not khatibi and daei,


Amir Jan,

If even Khatibi is NOT considered a fast forward, then I don't know whats your definition of FAST?!

My opinion:

Being fast is not enough!
Its not track and field we are talking about, its FOOTBALL.
You need quality to score goals and get into scoring positions.
Some have it, some don't...

Amir
02-22-2006, 07:19 PM
Amir Jan,

If even Khatibi is NOT considered a fast forward, then I don't know whats your definition of FAST?!

My opinion:

Being fast is not enough!
Its not track and field we are talking about, its FOOTBALL.
You need quality to score goals and get into scoring positions.
Some have it, some don't...
i wont comment on daei for the sake of keeping the thread to its subject ;)

ok you say its not track and field, i agree. but can you tell me how thierry henry scored yesterday? would they win the crucial match if it was not for his VA-VA-VOOOOM? would a player like nistelrooy be able to score that? thanks..

khatibi & daei combination is a horrendous one especially for a game against taiwan we need young players to gain experience. i would give daei a chance but my first 2 choices would be shojaei and kazemian. they would definately benifit from this match and i believe they do have the necessary quality to run,dribble,pass,use their technique and make a proper shoot not a "sa'ati" one be ghole khiabani in a 1on1 situation with a taiwan goalie. im only criticising khatibi here.

Kaiser Amir
02-22-2006, 07:47 PM
Amir Jan,

My opinion:

Branko went for the DAEI - Khatibi combination to have the best of the two worlds as they say.

ALI DAEI = Height advantage over his opponents

Khatibi = The speed that DAEI lacks

Unfortunatly, the crosses provided for ALI DAEI were poor to say the least and Khatibi showed his limits with a poor performance.

Branko's intentions were good, but the outcome not so bright.

And in football there is a famous saying:

The best players are ALWAYS those who DID NOT play

This means its easy to critisize those who were on the pitch, but say that, THEORITICALLY, if others were in their place they would have done better.

Once the match is finished, no one can EVER know for SURE if the Kazemian - Borhani combination would have done better or worse than ALI DAEI - Khatibi.

Its just a theory...

PersianPlaya408
02-22-2006, 08:25 PM
Good post kaiser

i have been stressing for a while how Madanchi should be our option in the left side!... he is better than Nikbakht, i have been following this player since his days in Fajr and OMid team....

I think zareh is a hardworker, but not the best solution in left back....

about todays game:

i agree about Teymourian and Jabbari in midfield... although I am a big HAMED Kavianpour fan as you know, i now agree that Hamed has no place in national team, teymourian and jabbari are just younger and better suited for our future at this point... although IMO hamed is still the heart of perspolis

I think Madanchi, Kazemian, Teymourian and Jabbari should definetely be included in our national team.... Siavash Akbarpour perhaps deserves another chance... Khatibi did not do well at all... and i have always said that he is not good for tm.... i was a bit dissapointed to see Nosrati play so much, although i thought he did okay, i wanted to see what esteghlals defender Sadeghi could do in national team.... but i guess Nosrati was just needed for the nonexistent taipei attack

anyhow... daei wasnt great, but he wasnt bad either, scored and gave some good passes, i liked his assist to madanchi...

again.. if anybody watched Perspolis's match against Bargh last week... Pejman Noori had a great game, and filled in great in central midfield, a real fighter and jangandeh as we say, great defensive midfield, i think he can be a good backup for Nekounam (who wasnt good)... Noori is much better than Alavi who was bad today too

PersianPlaya408
02-23-2006, 12:55 AM
after watching match aGAIN... in alesafars rerun

i realize KHatibi had a great first half, and a decent match all around... he just needs to work more on final touches.... but all-in-all, this is perhaps the best i have seen khatibi in national team

fakhfour
02-23-2006, 04:27 AM
Thank you all for your great posts. That's what I call discussing...
About many points, I agree with Amir. About Khatibi, however, I think he moved a lot and was good, but not on his final touches. He was Daei x (-1). Daei didn't touch the ball more than 15 times, but was good with his final touches. I asked some of my friends to count the number of his ball-touches ;)
Sina mentioned the number of our fouls, which was higher than Taipei's. I can not explain that. It's a very important point.
To finish, I would say we could have taken the risk to put Borhani in and keep Daei on the bench.

Kaz
02-23-2006, 05:03 AM
My $0.02

The key idea we have to apply to everything we say here is relativity. With that, the true meaning of this match will be deciphered.

As we all know, Chinese Taipei are a poor team. Did you know they're ranked 157th in the world? In fact the MALDIVES are better than this team. So in all, this is the kind of team Iran should beat 8-10 to nil. However, we played with 6 of our regular starters, so half the team was absent. The half that were there didn't really need to be, which raises the question as to why, if any experience was there to be had...was it not given to the newly invited player. One being Sadeghi. So when reflecting on the match, 4-0 is a par score.

Let's look at the players keeping in mind they were playing Chinese Taipei:

Talebloo: Had relatively nothing to do all game, but managed to look confident if nothing else.

Golmohammadi: Solid, swept up the rare CT attacks.

Nosrati: Ventured forward a few times, the only thing I viewed for improvement is his rather messy tackles. Which at times we've all seen him give away penalties. I hope this is noticed by Mohammad.

Kaebi: I was impressed by Hossein. He looks much more confident and under control. Ventured forward when he needed to (which wasn't a lot) and did not give away the ball as he tends to in bigger matches.

Zareh: Well, what can I say? Another poor performance. Why is this player even invited to TM? It is a spit to he face of every deserving player in the league to have to watch this man play 90 minutes. He slows the game down too much. Not only is he physically unable, he is technically unable as well. When crossing from the left side, he needs to go to his right-foot and cross the ball in (which he didn't do well at all) and this gives the opposition defense that 2-3 seconds extra to adjust and await the cross. This is unacceptable, and will be dealt with easily in the world cup.

Teymourian: A solid player. A smart player. A player Iran can trust to hold the ball and to make something of it. He is in the few youngsters that will be important to this team, as our midfield (current selections) aren't on form and/or reliable.

Alavi: A superfluous and lazy inclusion. When a team like Chinese Taipei barely attacks or poses a threat, it makes you wonder to the lord above why Branko is playing TWO DEFENSIVE MIDFIELD players.

Nekounam: I didn't see an excellent game for Javad, nor did I see a poor one. His shooting needs some improvement and another piece of criticism is that I wish he were a bit more alert in his position.

Jabbari: Well he started a bit shakey, however, he ended up playing well and displaying the reason of his selection. Quick passing, smart play maker he is the kind of player we'll need in the World Cup to keep this team dangerous no matter what situation. He'll make something out of nothing on his best day.

Khatibi: Rasoul enjoyed a good share of possession of the ball. Watching him play, it seemed he was trying too hard to impress. Should have passed a couple times, should not have shot a few other times and he should have got on the scoresheet.

Daei: Warning I have nothing but criticism for Daei. Let's start with the aerial aspect. He got away about 4 headers of which only two were on target. This is where the relativity part kicks in. This is Chinese Taipei with a team full of short players. Daei was a giant compred to the defense, yet he hardly posed a threat, relatively speaking. Watching the small CT players push Daei around and actually putting him off a few times from getting his header on was embarressing. Some are saying there weren't enough crosses, baba there were plenty. Not all crosses are going to land ON your head, you have to MOVE and position yourself as a forward to take advantage of every centered ball. Unfortunately, speed and fitness is what you give up when you place a 37 year old forward in your line-up and play him for 90 MINUTES! One good assist to Madanchi, a low quality goal and that was it for the match. One good thing for every 10 bad, yet we've lowered our expectations so much that this is GOOD to some of us. I return back to relativity here: this was Chinese Taipei who not only didn't stop the cross that came but gave him enough time to stop it then shoot and neither defender or goalie got a touch to it. This was the post where the goalie was closet to. I can go on and on, but relatively, this was a poor performance and one can only come away and say..."He must be trying to increase his record".

Kazemian: Came in and for the 15 or so minutes he was on the field he made two goal opportunities. Looking better and better as the season progresses.

Madanchi: What can I say? Man of the match. Came in, gave it his all. Pleaded his case, scored two goals, assisted one and ran the left part of the field. This was CT, but from the performance he exhibited it wouldn't have mattered if it was England, he would have bugged the hell out of that side. Whilst, I hold a player like Maniei in higher esteem than Madanchi, I find it hard to overlook Madanchi. He gives you commitment, pace, skill, and attacking prowess. Again I compare him with Maniei, but I think in regards to influence he is the better of the two. As he showed Vs. Bayern, he does not care WHO (e.g. Sagnol) is in front of him, he will play his game. This is the kind of confident young player we will need in the WC. He will be the new Mahdavikia for us.

Akbarpour: I was rather disappointed by Siavash. He had two great chances to score and the small lack of concentration messed it for him. He showed little inventiveness and willingness and I think Siavash is still a great player that can help us. He has it all, he just needs to work harder.

Now in regards to all-round team performance. Once again, this was Chinese Taipei. We surely lacked cohesion, which is expected with a new team, but really, we lacked planning. The team did what it wanted when it wanted, and that was more due to the poor quality of the side that opposed them. Why Branko played two DM's I do not understand. Why Daei got 90 minutes, is also a mystery. Why Sadeghi wasn't given preference over Zareh, no one can know. All those players got 90 minutes, as if we NEEDED to test them more. I hope this is a catalyst for change, but I really consider this an eye-wash for the fans. This game mean't nothing, and it's more than likely the generic line-up will be adhered to. Get used to it I say.

Kaz
02-23-2006, 05:12 AM
He scored one.
He assisted one.
He hit the post once.
He gave another world-class pass to Khatibi, just a few seconds after Iran went 2-0 up, Khatibi though missed a 100% scoring chance.

Which team was he playing against? How many did he screw up again? How much did he run?

Ali Daei reminds me of this fat president we have in my Italian football club here. On Wednesday I go to football training and sometimes this man named Charlie joins. While Charlie has an excellent footballing Brain he does not move more than two steps to retrieve a ball. You have to give it to him at his feet for him to turn, and give a nice pass or shoot. He is basically a lamp-post standing still near the goal.

The same goes for Ali Daei. Having a player like Daei can have a flash of brilliance here and there, but he equates for more work for others. Seriously, I think Brazil should bring back Pele and station him in the front of the ground. He is bound to give ONE good pass and have ONE good shot. Especially considering the players around him will run their lungs out to give him a ball to score with. Or Maybe that's just Daei? :wall:

On a more technical note, it is the worst offense of a forward to not position or move himself accordingly. Do you know why Daei gets all his balls to his feet? Because he doesn't MOVE. If we had a moving forward that ran into space and timed his runs, our players could pass the ball through the middle. They could give a through-ball to the running forward in order to expose the defense that way, without having to always go to the sides and have the ball centered that way. Just a thought :rolleyes:

Kaz
02-23-2006, 05:14 AM
By the way, its AMAZING how some people BASHED Ivankovic for calling up Madanchi....

I don't think too many people were that upset. I think they were wondering why players that had been more successful at club level weren't invited. Hint Hint: Maniei.

He played great though. Kudos to him.

Kaz
02-23-2006, 05:22 AM
OK!

So, Khatibi and Akbarpour showed what you say above.

Reza Enayati showed in the West Asian Games that he CAN NOT score even versus U-17 sides.

Hmmm...I wonder why the big bad Branko INSISTS on playing the 37 year old ALI DAEI...

Akbarpour should have done better granted, Enayati played very well and should have done better in that tournament granted.

If Akbarpour was to have scored two, would you have said? "LET'S REPLACE DAEI!". The truth is, he got two half chances that he made by positioning himself properly, he needs more time.

What about if Enayati scored 5-6 goals in the West Asian tournament? For some reason I imagine this reasoning: "It was the West Asian tournament, Daei has experience, Enayati is just a league goal scorer". The truth to this one is that Enayati in that tournament set up plenty of goals for his counterparts. However, Borhani AND Oladi were the biggest ball hogs of the tournament. One just has to watch the Syria match to see the selfishness of Borhani. I don't blame him so much either, the way the selection goes, you need a lot of goals to be undeniably qualified.

I'm sure if Fifa allowed Shevchenko to play for Iran you would have an objection to him playing over Daei. That's the difference between a logical/consistant thinker.

The real FACT is that all those forwards named by you and Daei play in the same league. Tell me again? Daei has scored HALF the goals Enayati and Akbarpour has scored more than Daei. They're playing the same teams? Daei's team is relatively strong in the league, you're telling me the great DAEI is not performing better in the league? What a surprise? :rolleyes:. This is a constant competition. Where Daei plays his 90 mins a game. Contrast that to a 15 minute flurry here and there by Akbarpour and Enayati. No, let's not compare them to Daei, it isn't fair to them.

Kaz
02-23-2006, 05:26 AM
You say ALI DAEI had very bad headers, I say you are unfair.

One of his headers crashed against the post in the first half and another one was amazingly saved by the goalie in the 2nd period.
Actually, this second header had so much power on it that a friend of mine thought ALI DAEI had vollyed the ball with his foot!

Also, you critisize ALI DAEI for his headers, but you don't talk about the SERVICE provided to him.

A good header NEEDS a good cross.
Our crosses were AWFUL today! Most of them didn't even got past the first defender.

So, I'm not saying ALI DAEI was excellent today.
I don't even care if he plays for Team Melli or not as long as we are getting the RESULTS, but I say be fair.

You don't care if he doesn't play? LOL. He had good headers? Two on target out of how many? How many more did the crossers have to give him? 10? Playing against small and physically weaker opposition and being built like a truck as Daei is and NOT scoring a header is a crime.




Amir Jan,

If even Khatibi is NOT considered a fast forward, then I don't know whats your definition of FAST?!

My opinion:

Being fast is not enough!
Its not track and field we are talking about, its FOOTBALL.
You need quality to score goals and get into scoring positions.
Some have it, some don't...

Khatibi is fast, he just isn't good enough IMO. Having quality and scoring goals needs good positioning, sure. Does Daei have this? Are you going to kid us here and say that Daei HAS it? He may have HAD it...but right now...that implication is a joke.

Sina
02-23-2006, 01:00 PM
Dear Kazem

With all fairness lets not make this thread about Daei. We were just simply putting down our ideas on this game and how bad or good we executed. Honestly I believe you are being biased when you give a free pass to Akbarpour and on the other hand ignoring whatever Daei did for the team yesterday.

Contrary to you I believe Daei played OK and my problem was the fact that he played 90 full minutes and opportunity was not given to other players like Borhani and Rajabzadeh to play in this game. There was no reason for Daei to start IMO.

Akbarpour was nothing short of terrible. He did not pass the ball around and rather selfishly wanted to finish things up himself. That even got the criticism of his teammate at some point in the game. He had one horrible shot near the goal and missed two other opportunities. In fact if you want to compare him to Daei , the oldman was yek saro gardan better:)

Again I dont have a problem with Daei but how we approached this game and our team's strategy. Lets not make this thread about Daei vs this or that... :irani: :irani:

Also please lets not concern ourselves with If this or that happenned. We are discussing what actually occured here and nothing else.

Kaiser Amir
02-23-2006, 06:09 PM
Dear Kazem

With all fairness lets not make this thread about Daei.

Sina Jan,

I don't even read what he posts.

I just scroll down when I see his username on the left of the screen.
And when I imagine how much time he spent writing these stuff which I don't even read, then thats my biggest satisfaction :D

Kaz
02-23-2006, 09:46 PM
Dear Kazem

With all fairness lets not make this thread about Daei. We were just simply putting down our ideas on this game and how bad or good we executed. Honestly I believe you are being biased when you give a free pass to Akbarpour and on the other hand ignoring whatever Daei did for the team yesterday.

Contrary to you I believe Daei played OK and my problem was the fact that he played 90 full minutes and opportunity was not given to other players like Borhani and Rajabzadeh to play in this game. There was no reason for Daei to start IMO.

Akbarpour was nothing short of terrible. He did not pass the ball around and rather selfishly wanted to finish things up himself. That even got the criticism of his teammate at some point in the game. He had one horrible shot near the goal and missed two other opportunities. In fact if you want to compare him to Daei , the oldman was yek saro gardan better:)

Again I dont have a problem with Daei but how we approached this game and our team's strategy. Lets not make this thread about Daei vs this or that... :irani: :irani:

Also please lets not concern ourselves with If this or that happenned. We are discussing what actually occured here and nothing else.

I'm sorry Sina jaan, where in my post did I say Akbarpour played well? In my opinion he was very disappointing. Excuse my manner of arguing. I may not even believe what I preach sometimes but I wish to bring both accounts to the forum. If one side is on the absolute left of the spectrum, even if I'm in the middle, I'll present an opinion situated at the total right of the spectrum just to give the argument some perspective.

In truth, the two things I am biased about: Branko leaving, Daei retiring. I cannot help it, I want the best for my nation I guess. It isn't personal. Cheers.

Kaz
02-23-2006, 09:49 PM
Sina Jan,

I don't even read what he posts.

I just scroll down when I see his username on the left of the screen.
And when I imagine how much time he spent writing these stuff which I don't even read, then thats my biggest satisfaction :D

On the contrary I love reading your posts. If I get one laugh in the whole day it comes from you. Cheers :beer:

Sina
02-23-2006, 10:09 PM
Dear Kaz

Yes, I saw that you were critical of Akbarpour but then you added that he has the potentials and given the opportunity he will do better next time. :D

Dude with what I saw from him the other day there is no next time for him. He was worse than Khatibi IMO. Lets not forget that Rasoul was setting up players in the first half and only when he started taking his stab at the goal everything started falling apart.

In some way these are not the players' fault. They sit on the bench for too long that when they get into the game they see the need to do something spectacular. :rolleyes: So many of these guys play so awesome for their clubs and are playing sub club level when it comes to the national team. Honestly I dont know the reason for that. It is not like Branko is too willing to give youngsters a chance. It happens once in years. :rolleyes:

Again I believe our mentality of sending crosses is flawed since Daei can also work on the ground. We just need better techniques and strategies approaching this game. Why should we insist on the right footed Zare to send crosses from the left side when Madanchi is sitting on the bench? Branko has been with this team for more than four years and he doesn know his players yet? :eek:

We should be way over arranging them by now and instead focusing more on strategies, physical fitness, and other things. This to me is unacceptable.

Kaz
02-23-2006, 10:20 PM
Sina jaan I agree totally.

Firstly, In regards to Akbarpour, I do not know why he played bad. He plays very well in the league and he played awful here, no excuses. Whether we like it or not, it probably was his last chance. In a way I think he knew it as well, and I think psychologically, he and Khatibi were burdened because of it. However, no excuses. This is a team that Palestine beat 8-0.

In regards to ground work, I also agree. We have players with high technical skills that would do better with a ground game. If we were to try and input fast and technical players in this team, it would change the make-up of build-up play.

Like you, I also fear that this close to the World Cup we're still very unorganised. There is no cohesive body, even with the first team. This isn't a new phenomena and this fact has been expressed throughout the past year. Some people hear a boom, some people hear a ding, and then they go arguing over who has better hearing not noticing that whatever the sound....there IS one.

dashali
02-24-2006, 02:05 AM
1 cent...
Branko failed again...
many players in the camp.....
yet we see the same players as before....
Akbarpour and Enayatie could have scored more than Daei, Khtibi combination...

Jabari.....well played but don't forget....Karimi is playing his position,,,,
I don't think jabari wiil see much playing time in Germany,,,,,or overall, in team melli.....unless he changes his position,,,,

Khatibi.....nervous....that's all, he knew that the coach is watching him... so, he was not the same player who dribles and go toward goal...he wanted to pass more and make less mistakes, yet he made more... ;)

Akbarpour.....totally nervous....you could see it from his face,,,,he was another player who was not himself...

Teymouriyan....was great, but again, won't see him playing...KIA is there... also, bet you that because of his celebration after his goal.... he won't see much playing time....you do not put cross...this is JOMHORIE ESLAMI...

overall...nothing to discuss,,,,as Kaiser said

Iranetehhhhhhhh

fakhfour
02-24-2006, 08:10 AM
...Jabari.....well played but don't forget....Karimi is playing his position,,,,.
Don't you think he can take Zare's place?

Kaz
02-24-2006, 08:31 AM
Zareh will, if he is picked, play in defense. 23 player squad will probably include 2 players from each position. Unless utility players are taken into account, there won't be other inclusions.

fakhfour
02-24-2006, 08:56 AM
Zareh will, if he is picked, play in defense. 23 player squad will probably include 2 players from each position. Unless utility players are taken into account, there won't be other inclusions.
this time he was more like a piston or a wing than a def. no?

dashali
02-24-2006, 09:35 AM
Don't you think he can take Zare's place?

oh yes...there are many players who can play ZARE's position.... the question is:
who is behind ZARE? connection got him there and he is still there...
Iranetehhhhh :irani:

Kaz
02-24-2006, 11:29 AM
this time he was more like a piston or a wing than a def. no?

LOL. I'd avoid trying to rationalise any inclusion of his. As Dashali said...

I hope Jabbari is in the team, though.

fakhfour
02-24-2006, 12:51 PM
oh yes...there are many players who can play ZARE's position.... the question is:
who is behind ZARE? connection got him there and he is still there...
Iranetehhhhh :irani:
What about Madanchi and Jabbari, instead of Alavi and Zare?

Kaiser Amir
02-24-2006, 06:00 PM
..
Akbarpour and Enayatie could have scored more than Daei, Khtibi combination...


dashali Jan,

This is your opinion/guess and I do respect it.
Before we go any further, I want to underline that you are one of the people whom I ALWAYS enjoy reading their thoughts.

It all goes back to JANBE DASHTAN and the fact that you NEVER try to shove your point of view down other people's throats.


Back to what what you said in the above quote:

There is famous saying in football dashali Jan.
It goes like this:

The best team is always formed of those players who DID NOT play


You can easily bring out the weaknesses and mistakes commited by those who actually played and praise what those who didn't COULD HAVE DONE if given the chance.

The truth is we will NEVER know what Akbarpour and Enayati could have done, but we know that the ALI DAEI - Khatibi combination:

- Had one goal + two assists


..
Jabari.....well played but don't forget....Karimi is playing his position,,,,
I don't think jabari wiil see much playing time in Germany

Teymouriyan....was great, but again, won't see him playing...KIA is there...


dashali Jan,

I'm not sure if by these statements you are critisizing Ivankovic, but if you are, then you are unfair.

How can Ivankovic be blamed for having BETTER ALTERNATIVES than Jabbari and Teymurian who are indeed quality footballers?

I tell you this:

If I was Team Melli's coach I wouldn't have touched Karimi and Mahdavikia either.
They have such vast international experience + great skills that replacing them in the starting 11 is pure suicide.


..
Khatibi.....nervous....that's all, he knew that the coach is watching him... so, he was not the same player who dribles and go toward goal...he wanted to pass more and make less mistakes, yet he made more... ;)

Akbarpour.....totally nervous....you could see it from his face,,,,he was another player who was not himself...


dashali Jan,

If Khatibi and Akbarpour were NERVOUS against an opponent as WEAK as Chinese Taipe, then I don't want them in Team Melli.

Remember! I said I.
No disrespect to you is meant :)
I might be wrong ;)

I mean, if you are a PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALLER and want to stake your claim for a place in a team that is World Cup bound you MUST be able to get the job done versus UNPROFESSIONAL OPPONENTS who have nothing to offer.

Lets be honest.
If Khatibi and Akbarpour CAN NOT perform in a:

- Meaningless Asian Cup qualifier
- Played in Azadi
- Before a crowd of just 6.000
- Against a team ranked 157 in the world

then we better NOT COUNT on them for the World Cup.


Sorry for the long post.
And know that I DO value your views even if I sometimes counter them.
Regards
Amir

Kaz
02-25-2006, 01:23 AM
One goal and two assists? Eye-wash? This was Chinese Taipei. Palestine put 8 past them. Daei and Khatibi combo was no good, even singularly. The criticism is not in having alternatives, it is that almost 3-4 months to the WC we're JUST starting to use them. That is Branko's fault. Of course Khatibi and Akbarpour are going to ber nervous, it didn't matter if it were CT or not. One bad pass, one bad move, and Ivankovic will have his scapegoat. Only Madanchi can walk away from the past alternatives "used" and be confident.

dashali
02-26-2006, 03:39 AM
amir jan....damet garm...and you know how much respect I have for you as well ;) this is a 2 way HIGH WAY ;)

let me reply to some of the points....I cannot make the quotes like you did, but I try to do my best...

as for TOUCHING kia and Karimi's positions in TM.... I was not trying to complain or say choose another one and and and... KIA and KARIMI are the best players right now in TM.... my point is, for every star in ANY national team.....several star will be lost as well....that's part of the game....
in the past we saw it...and now the same....not only in Iran but all over the world....my point was to those who kept saying how goos JABARI and and and are,,,,hellllllloooooo...we know, but who would you rather have? KIA or TEYMORIEYAN?...KARIMI or JABARI? the answer is clear....

as for AKBARPOUR's problem and being nervous....the problem was not TAIWAN....the problem was the pressure....coaches are looking at you, they take notes and they are going to cut you or keep you, this is a lot of pressure, no matter who you play, who the opponent is....I say this just because of experience.....I had to go through many tryouts in my soccer life...and as soon as all the eyes are watching you, you get nervous.... in tabieeh va baraye har kas piesh mieyad...if Branko gives more time to these players and use them more....it will be easier for them....I won't compare my team and his team, but I used to make cuts after 48 hours....now I keep them for 5 days then make the cuts....and trust me sometimes they will cut themselves ;) all it takes is,,,,,,RUN....run run....loooool

I know how much you LOVE DAEI....I do have respect for him, I am honored that he is Iranian,,,,I love the fact that he broke so many records.... but honost to god.....do you think DAEI deserves to play 90 minutes?
Recently OmideIran TV showed the 6-2 Kore game and all those wonderfull golas Daei scored....no doubt man no doubt....he was great.....
but his days are over, just like any hero, any athlet needs to hang his shoes.
Daei will just hurt himself by staying and playing like this....take a look at IPL and how poorly he plays.....his weight, his jumps and over all, his performance. We all need to accept this....
when I said about the combonation....Daei and Khatibi's combination was dead because 10 years ago daei alone would have scored 10 goals,,,,,and not only 1 but 2 or 3 people had to watch Daei.....now, even taiwan will just put 1 player against him....
don't be fooled by scoring against them and assisting 2 or so....this team was no challenge to us...

Be a fan...but...don't become a fanatic

Iranetehhhhhhhhhhhh :daei: